Wallet Max Planet Positive Podcast with Investor Denise McQuaid

Join Bhuva Shakti, Founder & CEO at Wallet Max, as she speaks with female investors looking to leverage inclusion and impact without compromising growth of investments.

​This month her guest is Denise McQuaid, a Co-Founder and Director of Investor Relations at AwakenAngels, the first and only women-led angel investment syndicate in the island of Ireland.

​About Denise McQuaid:
​​​Denise McQuaid is a Co-Founder and Director of Investor Relations at AwakenAngels, the first and only women-led (not women-only) angel investment syndicate in the island of Ireland, dedicated to supporting and investing in women-led start-ups based in Ireland. Denise is a seasoned professional with global experience spanning Europe, Asia, and the US. She specializes in facilitating the growth of early-stage technology organizations by leveraging her expertise in venture capital, micro funds, angel investment, and syndication processes. As the Co-Founder of AwakenHub & AwakenAngels, Denise has cultivated a dynamic community of women founders and angel investors in Ireland and Irish diaspora communities, fostering collaboration and empowerment. Beyond her entrepreneurial ventures, Denise serves as a mentor at Imperial Venture Mentoring Service, a Growth Advisor at Cranfield School of Management, and an Advisory Board Member at UK British Angels Association.

​AwakenAngels mission is to democratize and transform the landscape of women-led entrepreneurship and investment across the country. AwakenHub is a key partner in the EU Commission's Women TechEU cascade funding programme. This groundbreaking initiative is dedicated to empowering women-led deep tech startups across Europe with €12 million in equity-free grants.

​About Wallet Max: 

​​​Wallet Max expands fundraising for growth-stage startups in sustainability and climate fintech sectors, and connects them with an inclusive community.

​​About Bhuva Shakti:

​​Bhuva Shakti (she/her) is the visionary founder and CEO driving sustainable innovation at Wallet Max, a global community of executive women and venture capital investors with a mission to expand fundraising access for high-growth sustainable startups. With an MBA from Columbia University in New York and as a senior executive director on Wall Street for three decades, Bhuva has managed diverse financial portfolios and launched several digital transformation products for investment banks, capital markets, and payment networks.

​​Bhuva’s leadership and risk governance oversight, during the global financial crisis and the pandemic, was pivotal for the success of regulatory compliance and mergers acquisitions at the world's top banks and credit rating institutions. Bhuva is a board director and fractional C-Suite advisor for social impact businesses, and a keynote speaker advancing economic inclusion and climate-fintech partnerships.

​​Bhuva is the USA country director for World Business Angels Investment Forum and the Chief Ethics & Culture Officer for Women in AI worldwide. She leads the fundraising strategy and product operations for market expansion and manages investor relations throughout the diligence and investment. Bhuva is the founder of Bhuva’s Impact Global that provides board advisory services and enterprise risk management for public and private corporations.

Transcript

BHUVA [00:00:03.20] 
Hi, everyone.

Welcome to the March edition of WalletMax Planet Positive podcast.

As we settle into 2025,  I'm Bhuva Shakti, based in New York, and the founder of WalletMax.

We are a global community of startups, investors, and executives focused on increasing funding access for women, especially in the FinTech, AI, technology, and climate sectors.

We interview one impact investor every month for our podcast to share their background and what differentiates them from the crowd, in terms of prioritizing impact along with profits and planet. We deep dive into their personal and professional journey and their mission to uplift our communities.

Today, we are speaking with Denise, a long-term investor and a big supporter of women's initiatives. Denise is a co-founder and Director of Investor Relations at AwakenAngels, the first and only women-led angel investment syndicate in Ireland.

[00:01:02.16] 
Denise works with female founders via early-stage investment and is also motivated and dedicated to educating angel investors. Denise is also a co-founder at AwakenHub. Let me now hand over to Denise and invite her to say a few words about her background and career path. Over to you, Denise.

DENISE [00:01:23.10] 
Super, Bhuva. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so delighted to join you today, and obviously, to tell you a little bit more about what we've been doing on the island of Ireland. We're very much focused, as you said, on women-led investment syndicates and educating new women angels.

[00:01:38.24] 
My career journey started it's been a mixture of entrepreneurship, leadership, and very much, I suppose, a deep commitment to empowering women, not only in business, but also women founders from that perspective.

And I suppose I have two decades of experience in terms of growing and scaling businesses, having done that in Europe, into the US, and into China. I suppose I've always been very conscious of the barriers that women face, and particularly in those that are founders and fundraising. I suppose that's the big pivotal piece, for me has always been central to everything that I've been doing, has been empowering women.

My journey has taken me to multiple countries, and I've learned about different cultures and different ways of doing business. But I think the fundamental deep rooted piece around my career has been the ability to join people, process, and technology in growing and scaling businesses.

[00:02:39.06] 
And I think the joy that AwakenAngels has brought has been to be able to join those dots and continue to join those dots, but just add the funding element to supporting these enterprises in growing and scaling.

BHUVA [00:02:54.01] 
Thank you, Denise. And I've been part of your journey through where AwakenAngels has been in US, in New York over the past few years. I'm curious to learn about your unique secret sauce. What's your unique differentiator personally? What was the pivotal moment in your life that led you to this today?

DENISE [00:03:15.05] 
Yeah, I think my own personal secret sauce is that ability to do the global expansion and to operationalize businesses for that growth. I think I've been very fortunate through my career to touch many businesses on that journey and be part of that, their international expansion. Ireland is a small country, and I suppose export is a fundamental route to growing and scaling your business.

[00:03:41.12] 
And obviously with our close relationships with the US, and obviously a very strong diaspora community. Obviously, the US has been a big focus in our growth journey, even from an AwakenAngels perspective. But AwakenAngels was founded with three additional co-founders to myself, and we have been in the startup ecosystem, growing businesses, and Mary, our chair from AwakenAngels, is an exited founder herself.

[00:04:06.20] 
And obviously we were really, really aware of the challenges in the fundraising ecosystem. I think we take for granted if we're around startups all the time and we're around the startup ecosystem that everybody knows what angel investing is. And I think the thing that we really wanted to do was to make angel investing accessible to the many and not just the few. There's a preconception that angel investing, you have to be an exited founder or a high net worth individual with extreme wealth to invest in this relatively risky asset class.

[00:04:40.10] 
But we wanted to take away that and demystify what angel investing was. So education has been a key component of our strategy from the beginning. We decided that we would build a training component to our angel investment syndicate to allow those that have really stellar careers, women in business, women climbing the corporate ladder to explore backing more women and supporting them by opening up their wallet and investing in the next generation of phenomenal women-led innovation. The training component has been a key part on giving this opportunity, this asset class, a real focus.

[00:05:27.00] 
We are on cohort training number five now at the moment. We're very proud to say that we have over 75 brand new angel investors coming from all different walks of life. They could be in the legal professional, the professional services, working in charity, working in their own growing and scaling SME businesses, all wanting to back the next generation of founders. That was really the key piece that we wanted to unlock. But within that, then we wanted to make it accessible from a financial point of view. For those that are new to angel investing, could come on the journey, start to build their portfolio for a minimum investment ticket of 2,000 dollars, euros, or pounds. We'll take it in whatever currency is available for the companies that we have running through.

BHUVA [00:06:19.08] 
And that was allowing you to take the education component, make it accessible that you were investing a small sum of money to get started and then start to build your portfolio, building your confidence and deploying bigger tickets.

DENISE [00:06:32.12] 
And then underpinning everything that we do at Awaken Angels is community and allowing our new angel investors to co-invest alongside experienced angel investors who have very strong portfolios very strong deep domain expertise in industry sectors, geographical locations, business models, and really taking away another element of the risk around this asset class and allowing our experienced angel investors to lead the deals, contribute to the due diligence, drive the deal forward, and then allowing people to learn by doing in a community-focused way.

BHUVA [00:07:12.00] 
Yeah, no, definitely. You rightly said it's for women either in the corporate sector or climbing or like myself, I've been in the corporate sector for three decades, and this is a good time for me to pay it forward, but also make an investment not compromising on the future trends, right? Absolutely.

DENISE [00:07:33.13] 
Yeah.

BHUVA [00:07:34.01] 
So very, very relevant for me as well, and I can relate to it. But why did you specifically choose angel investing in women-led startups? Why that specific sector focus? Also, where do you see opportunities and challenges between Ireland and the rest of the world? If you could just help us understand a little bit more on that.

DENISE [00:08:00.10] 
No, absolutely. Investing in women-led startups, it's not just about equity, it's about equality. For us, it was very much around just being smart investors. We're seeing when women were coming to the fore and developing these great global businesses, there wasn't a lot of data around how they were leading, how the exit numbers were looking. There wasn't a lot of data around that there is a real benefit to investing in women. But now, as we're seeing more women get more investment, and we're seeing still relatively low numbers of investment from a VC perspective, but the data now is starting to come through that women actually develop better businesses and lead these businesses ultimately to success. So that was, obviously, we want our investors to see a return on their investment.

[00:08:56.00] 
So women are a natural progression in terms of seeing come to fruition and come through. The trigger for that was obviously there is still only circa 2 % and the number goes up and goes down, but ever so slightly being invested in women, globally, from a VC perspective. Obviously, we wanted to be a contributor to driving that number higher. Then obviously, we wanted to get a return on our investment. And the data is now proving out that women do a better job. They were kind of the two pieces of why we wanted to back more women. But ultimately, there is a perception around investing in women.

BHUVA [00:09:39.22] 
There is a perception around impact investing, and there's a perception around some of the new and emerging sectors that we're seeing coming through, as you've said, from a climate perspective or from a sustainability perspective.

DENISE [00:09:55.06] 
Ten years ago, impact investing probably wasn't as well understood as it is today. But very much impact investing is not charity, and you can impact invest and have a conscience and invest in businesses that have a social purpose or societal purpose, but also make good fundamental returns at the end of the day. So it was very much around taking that out of the mix or out of the, I suppose, the debate. We are investing in strong women. We are investing in very solid business models. We are investing in women with global ambition that are also with a purpose and taking on some of the big and hairy challenges in the world today.

BHUVA [00:10:38.06] 
Yeah, no, totally understood. So I always tell people impact investing is not running a nonprofit.

DENISE [00:10:45.16] 
Exactly.

BHUVA [00:10:45.22] 
Coming from Wall Street, we think, okay, do I do either a for-profit or a nonprofit? There is something in between where you can feel better doing good, but also make a good return on your investment.

DENISE [00:11:00.03] 
That's how I see it. Absolutely. From an Irish and a UK perspective, there is an emerging focus on women and under-represented founders. It's still not perfect, but it's definitely emerging. And obviously, we hope at AwakenAngels, we're contributing to changing that a little bit.

BHUVA [00:11:20.11] 
Across Europe, it's definitely more mature. You can see more impact-related funds emerging. You can see more women VC funds focused on investing in women. But the pace is still too slow, and we can still see that. But from a US perspective, the conversation around diversity and inclusion is possibly much more mature than it is across Ireland, the UK, and even across Europe. But there are structural barriers, and there are still challenges there.

DENISE [00:11:53.18] 
From our perspective, we need to make sure that the capital reaches those founders with the mindset and shifting that mindset of traditional investment perceptions that these can be great, impactful, purposeful, women-led businesses that also deliver returns. It's an incredibly important shift in the narrative that we want to contribute to and hopefully drive across the island of Ireland.

BHUVA [00:12:19.13] 
Yeah, definitely. Also, like you rightly said, globally, the percentage is smaller. But even if I take from the US perspective, it was a little bit higher, not to the level that we wanted before the pandemic. We would have thought during or after the pandemic, it would have stayed neutral or gone higher with so much systemic shifts, but it has only gone down. Now, this year, at least this month, looking at the current political landscape between US and the rest of the world, even big corporations and private investors, they are shifting their priorities or putting a hold on their forecast for the year or in a couple of years. In this scenario, how has success been for you?

BHUVA [00:13:06.00] 
Now that you also mentioned you have a lot of traction happening in United States. How would success look like for you or what has been some past case studies or examples that you think would stand the test of changing political landscape?

DENISE [00:13:25.12] 
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think investing as women is becoming much more imperative to all of us. It's a strategic advantage. The data is boring through that diverse companies with diverse leadership deliver better returns. It's not me stating that. The data behind that is working. As we look to navigate some of these political and economic uncertainties and the shifting in businesses, embracing diversity as a position of power can be and will be, I believe, credibly impactful for sustainable growth. I think there is a necessary shift for us to be all very conscious and have a collective voice across the world globally to make that shift. But I think one of the things from an economic perspective, the data, again, is saying that women are going to have a generational shift in ownership of wealth. And women are set to inherit 70 % of the global wealth in the next two generations.

[00:14:36.22] 
In the UK, that's set to be forecasted by 2020 that women will own 60 % of the generational wealth. That's a Boston Consulting statistic. It is being researched, it is being looked at, and it is being focused on. With that greater financial independence for women, women are increasingly looking for alternative opportunities. They may have invested incredibly well in their 401(k) or their pension. They may have done the real estate. They may have done more accessible stocks and shares that are more widely educated on. But we have an imperative I think, as collective leaders of businesses and investing, to back and open up this asset class to more women, but to fundamentally back more women-led businesses. They create higher returns, they create more jobs. They're doubling on average the returns for investors compared to those by men, and the data is there to back that up.

[00:15:40.07] 
Investing in women the long term, I believe, can close the wealth gap that can create more jobs, and we are fostering a more inclusive entrepreneurial ecosystem. I think we have a collective responsibility to do that. I think from AwakenAngels and our portfolio perspective, we're seeing some really, really game-changing companies coming through. And we're really excited about what the future holds. But I think if we sit and say we won't back more women or we won't back more under-represented founders, I think we're collectively losing out on the opportunity to see higher returns for the investors within our ecosystems. And I think, particularly for Ireland, as a small country, we absolutely need to be ambitious and we need to harness our diaspora and we need to look to scale internationally from the beginning. And all of our companies so far have that global ambition.

BHUVA [00:16:41.06] 
Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, three things stood out to me. Let me just maybe talk a little bit more about that. One is it's not about angel investing or startup ecosystem. Even in corporate leadership, bringing more diversity and inclusion is good for the bottom line. So regardless of the sector, whether it's startups or the corporates, it's the same. The data showcases that, so we are good on that. But then even with data showcasing that, and the second point you mentioned is the wealth transfer. Just last month, I was at the World Economic Forum giving some talks, and I did specifically talk about that. Even the World Economic Forum has released a research that says $85 trillion would be shifting within the next decade to the next generation, which would be mostly at least more than 50%, 60% would be led by women.

[00:17:39.17] 
Even with the generational wealth transfer, and even when you see success factors in both corporate and startup ecosystems, that it's good to have diversity, inclusion, and investments in this sector. And of course, the due diligence part of it. When you go to a pitch competition or evaluating a venture capital investment, you always see that it's comprehensive due diligence done by a women-led startup versus others. With all these positive factors being there, why is it extremely difficult to pursue this? It has not improved quite a lot.

[00:18:24.20] 
It is a lot of struggle, like communities like yours, mine, and everyone else trying push for it, but it is not moving sufficiently at a scale and at a pace that we can make a difference. How much more time do you think we'll have to wait? Like a decade or two? It's going to be too late. What's your thought on this?

DENISE [00:18:45.18] 
Even with leadership criteria, due diligence criteria, wealth transfer from the World Economic Forum reported globally, we see challenges.

BHUVA [00:18:56.02] 
Yeah.

DENISE [00:18:56.16] 
I think those challenges, unfortunately, are going to stay for a little bit further time. But I think if we can continue for people to understand that they can actually, as an individual, make a difference. There is obviously the perception that the VC world, which has been so focused and so male dominated for so long, we are certainly seeing a lot of initiatives coming through to get more women to explore working in venture, which will help change the dial. I definitely think the contributing an education component of getting new and young women exploring venture capital as a career. I think it's about demystifying angel investing and really the asset class, I think taking away that you need to be a high networth individual is another element.

[00:19:49.21] 
I think there is absolutely a fundamental, which is what we've done at AwakenAngels, which is yielding, but it's not only AwakenAngels, it's everybody. You need to educate yourself in terms of diversifying your own investment portfolio. I mean, uncertainty in politics and economics and all of those things, you can't hedge your bet on one asset class. You've got to maybe look at some of the other opportunities that are out there for you and just not being blinded that I don't know the startup ecosystem or I don't understand angel investing, that you can explore it and, collectively, we have a responsibility to bring those people together to drive that agenda, for sure.

BHUVA [00:20:36.19] 
Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely.

DENISE [00:20:38.02] 
In fact, I'm a big believer also. Even with this generational wealth transfer, women, by default, go for inclusive investments, impact investments, but they also need to show an ROI. I think we have to approach this from three different angles in the sense we need more investors who are women, we need more corporate or government or public partnerships with the private sector, but definitely the community aspect to bring such people to educate and collaborate would be a great move in the dial.

BHUVA [00:21:17.07] 
With that in mind, would you like to share one or two case studies or examples of companies where either you have invested personally or from AwakenAngels in the last couple of years that tells people, Hey, we are talking about it, we are educating about this, we are doing this, and here's the data where we can see success or we have seen success, even in a small way. Is that something you are able to share without confidential data?

DENISE [00:21:48.20] 
Absolutely. We started out from an AwakenAngels perspective only in September of 2023. We're just at that 19, 20 month mark now. It has been a journey because obviously you're educating new angels and you're hoping that when they get through the education program, that they are actually going to start writing checks. And I think we have been really truly amazed at how much our first training cohort, how their portfolio is growing for themselves and I suppose growing the portfolio from Awaken Angels point of view.

[00:22:31.21] 
Our first investment was into a cyber security business called ITIS Secure Technologies, and they are equipping the SME sector with actionable insights through their machine learning platform to enable those companies who may be non-technical but still need to protect themselves from cyber vulnerabilities, and they help them identify those vulnerabilities, assess the risk levels, and then obviously provide clear guidance to the companies in terms of how they can protect from a data breach perspective, but also protect themselves from cyber incidents. That was our very, very first investment.

[00:23:20.13] 
We were very excited when 12 of the 25 new angel investors that came on board for our first training cohort invested into Claire. And not all of them would have been aware of the cybersecurity industry, but they saw that Claire had a platform that could fundamentally protect business and ultimately enable them to continue to grow safely and securely. That was a real achievement for us when we closed that first investment, and so many new investors took the risk and came on board to deploy capital into our first investment, but also that the high number, that just under half of them had come on that journey with us.

[00:24:05.11] 
So it was really impactful for us as a team because it just went, we're proving out the hypothesis in that sense. And then we went on to invest in a sports technology business, Precision Sports. Again, another phenomenal founder, a professional sport athlete herself. But that platform [cough], excuse me, delivers real-time feedback and analysis, and to assess the athlete's performance, and to manage and prevent injury, so managing and predicting injury. And again, we had Cohort 2 of that training program. And again, we had over half of Cohort 2,   from a training perspective, deploy capital into Precision Sports.

[00:24:56.10] 
So when you're starting to see that momentum build, and now we have, obviously, from an AwakenAngels perspective, we have six in our portfolio, and all six of those companies have new angel investors investing alongside experienced angel investors. So the pipeline of deals is there. The quality of founders is there for sure. Our new investors are exploring industry sectors that they may not be familiar with. They're backing the founder and their vision for the business, so it's a really exciting time, but it also reflects our responsibility now as a good and established syndicate to be investing in high potential women that can drive impact into businesses and sectors. 

BHUVA [00:25:49.01]

Yeah, no, definitely. Cyber security is now everyone's business, but you have invested in it before it's becoming a must for every business, regardless of tech or not. Then sports tech would be something that's typically not in the minds of people while investing, but then the same technology or the concept could be expanded into other sectors. Protecting the health of people, right? I think those are all unique sectors that have potential to scale globally and also different from the crowd.

[00:26:23.16] 
But one thought I also had is if, let us say, we have the island of Ireland and focused on investments from there, and then investors are from all over the globe. Then you have investments in cyber sports and something similar to that, more tech focused. What are the emerging trends do you typically get excited about? Do you have a specific investment thesis that you stick to?

[00:26:55.17] 

Those are core principles or key elements. Then you add on elements elements based on the trend that you see in the market or the shift, geo-politically or economically. How do you find a balance? Of course, you can't do everything. So where do you find your niche?

DENISE [00:27:13.03] 
I think there's a number of key sectors that we're seeing coming through from an AwakenAngels perspective, but also we're very fortunate as an organization and as a company. We also work in the Women in Tech EU program, which is a program for women-founded businesses across the EU with a focus on deep tech technologies. So we're seeing a lot of perspectives, not only from an island of Ireland perspective, but also across Europe in working in that program. And I suppose our sectors from an AwakenAngels perspective so far have been in sports, a food technology, cyber security, insure tech, deep tech, from that perspective.

[00:28:04.18] 
We're definitely seeing those trends continuing with centers of excellence in Ireland from a medical and life science perspective through to sustainability. We are still where we are, probably leveraging sustainability a lot in being an island and obviously priding ourselves and being quite green from that perspective. We're definitely seeing lots of wonderful technologies coming through from to our investors to explore.

[00:28:32.16] 
And then from a wider European perspective, through the Women in Tech EU program, we're getting to see some great technologies across Europe coming through. I think there are a number of key sectors that I find really interesting, and we're starting to see women driving and leading some of these sectors. I think FemTech is maturing as a sector. I think a number of years ago, there were one or two coming through that you could say, Yeah, but I think the volume of activity in that sector is really interesting at the moment.

[00:29:08.21] 
I think we're looking at, I think, women in this sector really breaking some taboos and talking about subjects and addressing issues that affect us, be that menopause or mental health or chronic disease support. I definitely see that they're making... They're breaking taboos and taking advantage of substantial market opportunities. So I definitely think FemTech is important. And obviously that in itself drives the wider agenda around women and women in entrepreneurship and that gender equality that we're all striving for. I think climate tech is another interesting area, and particularly from our Women in Tech EU program, we're seeing a lot of brilliant businesses in renewable energy right the way through to carbon capture technologies that are really starting to advance.

[00:30:05.03] 
I mean, these subjects were not very mature a number of years ago, but we're starting to see lots of really innovative approaches to climate. And really the urgency on climate is growing globally. And none of us can take our foot off the pedal in terms of identifying these opportunities and investing in them. But I also think I think the financial returns in this space are going to be imperative. I think there's definitely a focus on that from a climate perspective.

[00:30:40.20] 
How long can we wait before we see some returns and see some of these technologies been deployed. And I think for us, we're definitely in both camps, both in AwakenAngels and a Women in Tech EU program, we're definitely seeing AI for good. I think that women are very strong in terms of the ethics around AI. I think they've got a very strong moral compass, and I'm definitely seeing the application of AI in some really interesting sectors, be that healthcare, education, sustainability overall. I think women really recognize the ethical approach to AI, and I think that's a little bit of a superpower from that perspective. I'm seeing some really emerging trends there with positive impacts that are going to mitigate a lot of challenges, but also provide investors with some good returns.

[00:31:37.21] 
I think the convergence of sectors is really interesting, blending the technology with purpose and you're definitely seeing more women drive those businesses forward, giving that strong financial returns while contributing positively to addressing some of the world's biggest challenges. I think they would be the three that I would see emerging from our own community, but also in the wider European ecosystem.

BHUVA [00:32:08.07] 
No, that's perfect, because when we approach an AI project, Ethics First is by default. No one has to put a regulation in, whether the regulation is being removed or there is a change in political landscape. Ethics First is already built in, so definitely I agree on the deep tech AI sector.

[00:32:29.20] 
FemTech also, I have been interacting quite a lot with investors in the US in the healthcare sector. More so before finding solutions, we need to assess the problem. There's not been a lot of research done in the past to solve some of the challenges. A lot of initiatives and investment is also going into first researching how to find a solution, what's the problem area, and then finding targeted healthcare solutions for us.

[00:32:58.14] 
Then the third sector you mentioned Sustainability, Climate, that's a very big area I also focus on because even though I come from the Wall Street financial sector, climate risk is inherent to your bottom line. If you don't plug in the climate risk component, you're doing incorrect financial projections to the market or your stakeholders. All these three sectors are a little bit capital-intensive, reliant on some research and some traction and some proof in the market, either in terms of customers, scaling or revenue. Then you are also investing in early stage.

[00:33:37.23] 
How do you support startups in early stage when you have a capital-intensive thesis across all these three and still support the founder through the journey.

DENISE [00:33:51.24] 
Yes. Well, we talk very much at AwakenAngels that angel investing and angel investors have two wings. One is capital and the other is knowledge capital. A lot of our investors have very, very deep domain expertise, knowledge, and mindset from their own careers and from their own global perspectives. Where we may be deploying relatively small ticket sizes into, as you say, some of these capital-intensive startups, we know we can bring added value, and we know that our community can open up their black book, their network and bring that strong rigor around some of these businesses.

[00:34:36.18] 
We know that some of these deep tech and capital-intensive businesses may be a small investment, but we know that we can have a big impact with that second wing from an angel investor perspective. We do really work with the companies to mentor and guide them because they are seven, potentially 10, year journey. We encourage our investors to look at how they can contribute to that, not just with money, but with their knowledge capital.

BHUVA [00:35:13.09] 
Yeah, exactly. If you have deep expertise in the domain, even at an early stage, you can really  

Then a great point that you made earlier is also betting on the founder, even if the trend of the market shift happens, the founder investor fit is really important to make the startup work.

[00:35:38.08] 
Even if you want to pivot in between, if the founder investor fit is there, I firmly believe that the solution will be a success.

DENISE [00:35:46.23] 
Yeah, definitely. We talk about that with our angel investors all the time. The business model may change, the business direction, the target customer may change. But fundamentally, the founder won't.

[00:36:02.08] 
How they operate, how they do business, how resilient are they? Can they manipulate the dynamics that may be thrown at them? And can we be there to add in and support as they go?

BHUVA [00:36:14.10] 
Absolutely.

DENISE [00:36:15.13] 
It's a founder-investor match that's so important.

BHUVA [00:36:19.01] 
Yeah, no, definitely. I see it in my investments and my community also all the time. I also noticed you have AwakenAngels and AwakenHub. I mean, I'm familiar with that, but for our community to understand a little bit more, would you like to share a little bit about how they are different and how they collaborate with each other for the greater good?

DENISE [00:36:44.18] 
Yeah, no, absolutely. And thank you for the opportunity to explain that. I possibly should have explained that earlier. So AwakenHub was established in 2020, and it was established on the back of some challenges that women were facing through COVID. Deal terms changing, funding term sheet has been pulled, challenges in pivoting the business in reaction to COVID. And we very much felt if we could bring these women together in a peer-to-peer environment, that we could support them, but they could also support each other. So Awaken Hub is a community for women-led businesses, and we have a number of interventions that we support the companies with, accelerator programs at early stage and those that are scaling. We run community events. We have a group of big sisters, which are mentors, those with domain expertise that can add value at that early stage of the journey. It's very much a community that wraps around the founders as they start to grow their businesses. And Awaken Angels is a community for investors, and our deal flow for our investors through the AwakenAngels community comes from our AwakenHub. And to that point around the founder, all of our founders that are coming through from an AwakenHub perspective, we've worked through with them for a number of years. We've seen them grow and develop.

[00:38:06.19] 
We've seen the businesses mature. Then when they're at the point that they're fundraising and they're ready to take on the investment, they come through to pitch to the investor community. They're symbiotic. They're different. One is a community for investors, one is a community for founders, but they do come together to, obviously, the investment side, but also to support each other as both communities.

[00:38:30.17] 
Some of our founders have become angels, and some of our angels have become big sisters and mentors within the community. They very much work together, although they're communities of two different entities.

BHUVA [00:38:44.08] 
No, that's perfect because someone who's just getting started on the investment side would first like to get that education and then collect thoughts with the founder.

[00:38:54.13] 
On the other side, when the founder is just establishing, they'd like to be left alone to get to a place where they are ready to fit. It's perfect that we have two different communities. Then there are quite a lot of communities like that. I know in the island of Ireland, you are unique and the first and only.

[00:39:13.20] 
But let us say globally, people are looking to invest in some next-gen trends and women-led startups and things like that. How do you think your community differentiates itself? What are top three areas or top three things that that would attract potential startups or angels to come to you? What's your community's differentiator?

DENISE [00:39:38.03] 
We pride ourselves in the two wings component. But I think for both our angels and for our new angels and for our founders, it's our community of experienced angels that really makes a difference. We have identified within our experienced angels 13 deal leaders, as we describe them, those that lead our deals, contribute very heavily to the due diligence process, but really can take on those advisory board roles, those non-executive director roles with the companies, have scaled businesses, exited businesses before, and have been there and done that from that perspective.

[00:40:23.04] 
I think from a founder and an investor perspective, having that experienced community alongside the new community is integral, and I think it's been a big part of our success so far. So I think having access to those people, those company builders, those exited entrepreneurs, is really, really important. And I think having that community as we have done and built that globally, be that in the Bay Area, New York, Boston, all the way through Europe, with a particular focus on a number of geographical locations, that has has been integral. I think that sets us apart from that perspective.

[00:41:05.07] 
I also think the access to training is an incredible piece of the jigsaw and really does allow us to take that community-centred approach in terms of learning and investing together. I think one of the things that is really coming to the fore to us as our US-based investor community grows is that Ireland is the only the English-speaking country in the EU, and appreciating our colleagues in the UK may not like to hear that, but from a European perspective. And obviously, AwakenAngels and AwakenHub are a contributor to the Women in Tech EU program. We have the opportunity to be a starting point for non-Irish-based investors to explore Europe.

[00:41:56.01] 
And I think that gives them a soft landing. That's what's allowed them to diversify their portfolio, looking at Ireland first, then with a foothold into Europe. And I think that has allowed us also to offer some very competitive valuations because we're not in the Bay Area from a US perspective. So our valuations are more competitive than many European countries, but also probably a little bit more competitive than the US. So that obviously has been an attracting piece for us and a differentiating piece for us as well.

[00:42:32.19] 
But I think our community-centred approach is, and I know people talk to that, but we invest very heavily in terms of bringing people together, both in an online and an in-person perspective. Angel investing can sometimes feel very transactional. You're giving money and you're waiting to see what can happen. And I think the fact that we do focus so heavily on community allows that transactional piece to really be lessened and for it to be more we're going on this journey together. And we are women-led, not women-only.

[00:43:08.03] 
So our deals will have, the majority of our investments will have women. But we do have a lot of male allies on the journey with us, too. So having both sides' perspective, that diversity of thought, diversity of view from a due diligence perspective, and that global perspective from our diaspora and those that have come on the journey with us has really allowed us to differentiate ourselves from other organizations, both here in Ireland and across Europe.

BHUVA[00:43:36.19] 
Definitely, because we are talking about equality, but not taking the whole hundred percent of the pie. So, definitely, allies is definitely a great concept.

[00:43:48.07] 
One other thing that also really, I mean, I've seen it in the action is once you have invested as an angel, the founders have access to you. As an angel, you also can see what the journey is, you keep us informed all the time. There is nothing like, Okay, I've invested, what's going to happen? And you're getting worried about your investment.

[00:44:10.05] 
There is always that communication happening. I know we are almost getting up to the end of our time, but one topic I have not touched upon is regulations, because you are in the island of Ireland. You have a lot of EU and UK influence, but you're also growing in US and rest of the world globally.

[00:44:32.02] 
Maybe a couple of words around that, and then if there is anything else you'd like to share with our community before we wrap up, please do.

DENISE [00:44:40.13] 
Yeah, no, absolutely. For our investors, we spent a lot of time, Bhuva, at the very beginning of setting up AwakenAngels, obviously being on the island of Ireland. We had two currencies and two jurisdictions, Northern Ireland, obviously, and the Republic of Ireland.

[00:44:58.08] 
From the beginning, we were operating in two jurisdictions. Then when we were doing our customer research and our customer validation through our diaspora community, we realized very quickly, with the support of our global ambassador for our diaspora, Mary-Ann Pierce, who's based in New York, that we would have interest from an investing perspective, too, within that community. Through that process, we spent a lot of time working through the regulatory environment and the reporting environment that would be required for any investor to come on the journey with us, regardless of the jurisdiction. We provide all of the tax reporting that is required based on the investor's locality and jurisdiction.

[00:45:42.12] 
That could be Ireland, it could be the UK, it could be Germany, and it could be the US. The documentation that is required, we provide once you've deployed your investment, we create that material for you for your tax return, and then we will send it to you once the investment closed, in addition to your shareholding of the shares that you hold in each individual company.

[00:46:04.05] 
We spent a lot of time working through that to make sure that that was set up from the beginning.

BHUVA [00:46:10.07] 
Yeah, that would be really helpful for an investor, as long as we don't have to navigate that complexity, that will be really great. Is there anything else you'd like to share with our community? Any last words before we wrap up?

DENISE [00:46:26.09] 
Yeah, I think the fact if there's anyone that is I would like to explore, obviously, AwakenAngels. They can drop me a note on LinkedIn or come through to our AwakenAngels website, which is awakenangelshq.com. Definitely delighted to speak to anybody. But also, I think if there's anyone that has not explored angel investing, we are not the only community with an education. There are many in the US, and there are a growing number across Europe. So please do explore as an asset class. We're obviously trying to change the dial on the island of Ireland by investing in women in Ireland, but that circa 2% of funding is a global problem.

[00:47:11.18] 
If you are in Australia listening to this podcast, or if you're in Spain, or if you're in China, please explore angel investing, because the more women that we can get to explore this asset class, the more chance we have to change that circa 2%. I just think, think about it as a journey, and it's not going to realize returns quickly, but nearly that you put it to the back of your mind once you've deployed your tickets and understand it's a risky asset class, but these women have the potential to really give you some really stron returns and maybe just getting uncomfortable with a little risk in your portfolio of your investments would will yield you some of the bigger returns that you'll see longer term.

BHUVA [00:48:03.14] 
Yeah, no, definitely. We have to take some kind of a calculated risk, and you are mitigating that with your education, with your community, with your diligent deal leaders and constantly in communication between the founders and investors. Those are some things that could alleviate some of the risks that we see.

[00:48:26.01] 
I mean, everything has a risk, even if you're trading in the New York Stock Exchange or Nasdaq or anywhere else there is a risk. But how do you mitigate it with a community is what I think is really helpful. Thanks so much, Denise, for sharing your time with us.

[00:48:41.11] 
I'll definitely let my community know if anyone is interested, even thinking about something like this, they can talk to you and then make a decision if that's something they would be interested in. Thanks so much for taking your time.

DENISE [00:48:55.16] 
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure, Bhuva.

BHUVA [00:48:58.22] 
Thank you.